I was reminded of my general nature - that's always fun - which is to say competitive. Don't misunderstand. I'm not bad-tempered in my competitiveness. I just want to win! So, as I watched Sara (a knitter of under 2 years) cast on Continental-style and knit most of the rib of a sock, probably 30 per cent faster than I can go knitting British-style, I realized I've got to switch that shit up.
Sure, as I sit in my cozy home, with no one else to compare myself against, my pace seems just fine! But seriously, peeps, I could be knitting twice as many things in the same period of time. My efficiency argument is trashed by my knitting style, even if I don't seem to be able to wrap my brain around the faster one.
Sara helped me to continue the Continental learning process and, really, it was painful for everyone with in visual-range. I'm not even interested in purling at this point. I just want to get the knit stitch down so that I can make those gorgeous stranded socks without having to pick up, twist and drop the yarn every other stitch because I can only do one method.
Some things...
For starters, here we are:
I realize, at this point you probably don't believe I have a physical form anymore, so let this photo disabuse you.
But let's get to the point - which is potentially germane for the knit along. Sine I never knit around others, I have determined that I am a "loose" knitter (that sounds so dirty!), but I've never really had evidence to go on.
Um, please observe the difference between a loose knitter (me) and a tight knitter (Sara) (never mind our methods). I have 60 stitches on the needle and I'm doing K1P1 rib. She's got 64?! stitches and she's doing K3P1 rib. We're both working on the same size of needle - 2.25 mm.
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| Forgive the muffin box styling... |
People, I think I know now why every sweater I knit ends up being too big unless I modify as I go or make the smallest size. Though I gauge swatch, I just get looser and looser as my project progresses. It has big implications.
But How Does This Impact Me for the Sock KAL, Kristin?
Well, I think we need to consider, as my pattern comes in one-size (unless you choose to modify stitch numbers), that I am a knitter, currently on one end of the gauge spectrum. If you knit at a super-tight gauge, you may well want to use a different needle size than I suggest. Like 2 sizes bigger?! Of course, if you swatch in the round, you might also decide to add a couple of stitches - which is easily done and doesn't have big implications for actual knitting. Just make sure you do it in batches of 2 stitches. I do think my socks are as loose as I would like them to fit my foot. So you could probably just use the same numbers, unless you're a crazy tight knitter, and (as long as your foot is about the size of mine), you'll simply end up with a snugger sock than I make. Snug in a good way, I mean.
Can we take a moment to be shocked that applied knitting is the one area in which I leave the Type A at the office?
OK, one other fascinating thing (and I do think it's fascinating!): When I worked a couple of rows in Continental knitting, my gauge tightened so significantly that I realize I won't be able to practice on my current sock (sock 2 of the pair) because it would, no doubt, end up being an entirely different size than the first. I don't know if this is because I was taking pointers from Sara (she of tight-knitting fame) or if it's because Continental knitting promotes a tighter stitch? Maybe it simply varies from person to person? Maybe I was stressed by the method so I tightened my grip? Who can say?
I think I'll have to do another post soon wherein I discuss ergonomic naturalness (for want of a good term). I am so comfortable knitting in the British style. Despite the fact that I cannot go as quickly as a Continental knitter, it is very gentle and predictable for my brain. It puts me into a meditative state and, as I go, I gain speed through efficiency of movement. My father taught me when I was 12 and, though I put down knitting from the age of 13 till when I was in my 40s, when I picked up the needles again, my brain knew exactly what to do.
I think of myself as a very adaptive person. I feel fairly dextrous (though much more so with my right hand, despite the fact that I write with my left hand). I've been told I'm ambidextrous as I do most things right-handedly (and most of my dominance is on my right side). The only thing I do left-handedly is write. As a result, I find it easier to do some things than others, because I just click into whatever mental zone is most useful. I wonder why this isn't coming to me. Perhaps I'm mentally lazy and, if I don't find my groove almost instantly, I get irritated and give up.
Egad, the thought that I'm a giver-uper is too hideous! I must not ever go that way.
Anyway, that's what I've got for you today.
Questions: Tight or loose? How do you knit? And, while we're at it, do tell whether you knit Continental or British style. Also, if you struggle doing both methods with equal dexterity, please do share your experience. Moreover, I want to talk to the peeps who are more natural at one method but who have managed to become knit-bilingual. How did you do it?
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I can only knit continental when doing stranded knitting. Or perhaps it was stranded knitting that forced me to learn as that's where it makes a big difference in speed. I knit British - much to my European mother's amusement as she thinks it looks stupid and slow - usually on circulars and generally to gauge.
ReplyDeleteHa! OK, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who's stupid and slow :-)
DeleteI haven't knew that there is British and Continental knitting ))
ReplyDeleteAnd apparently what my grand mother taught me was neither. It was Eastern European style (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCvJ6Oqf1Ao).
Oh, you renegade Eastern Europeans! Gotta check out the link...
DeleteGotta say, of all the methods I've watched videos of, this one seems the most doable - the most intuitive and feasible. I'm going to try it. Thanks!
DeleteOh! That's my knitting teacher, Berta, in that video. She's a fantastic knitter. She taught me a continental variation rather than eastern european (ie: I knit thru the front loop), but that's exactly how I cast on and I definitely use my finger like a shuttle as she says instead of throwing the yarn. It really cuts down on unnecessary movement.
DeleteI don't really have a sense of whether I am loose or tight, or maybe it's that I'm pretty middle of the road. The baby blanket I just knit ended on exactly the right row of the pattern at the length it was supposed to be (29.5"). So, at least for that project I was on gauge. Every English knitter I know fretted over gauge when they started knitting whereas Continentals didn't. So, I suspect that it's easier/more consistent/fewer variable with Continental.
That said, I can knit English very slowly and loosely when I do colorwork, which is fine since you need to be loose. But I've never tried just knitting English.
How amazing! What a seriously small world. I think I'm going to learn this method. Knitting through the back loop on the knit allows you to do an easy version of the purl stitch using your left hand (at least I think that's why one knits through the back loop in the Euro style knit stitch). In truth, everything is so loopy and complicated, I haven't sorted it all out yet.
DeleteGlad you like the method ).
DeleteIt's really fast and if you are knitting simple pattern you can do it almost without looking. I used to knit in overnight trains when I had to use them because of my old job (never was able to sleep there).
I can see this is the one I'm going to switch to, when I need to do stranded knitting or if I want to try a different method. The purl stitch is so much better than the Continental option. I don't mind knitting through the back of each stitch if it gets me easy purling. I'm not very fast though. Or even. But I just started!
DeleteI knit with the yarn on my right hand so british/European or in my case Irish! I did notice watching your video, that you keep taking your hand off the needle to wrap the yarns for each stitch. This is not the way I do it -the needle always stays in my hand while I loop the yarn over with my index finger. And I knit quite quickly. I do hold the needle differently though- more like a pencil! This is how I was thought at school, and there was hell to pay if we were seen taking our hands off the needle to throw the yarn around! !
ReplyDeleteYou see, I didn't even know that my technique was inferior by British knitting standards. Egad! If you can find a video of your method, I'd so appreciate your linking to it in another comment. Perhaps I could master that, and speed up?
DeleteI had the quickest of looks and found a video similar to the way I knit. Go to about 2 minutes in to see it in action.( Although I hold my yarn a little differently! ) I had no idea there were so many variations until I started looking! They call it the lever method. Hope this makes it clearer. Also materfamilias comment below explaining how she holds the yarn sounds like the way I hold mine.
Deletevideo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfJ8joMzYqU
Hey thanks Chris. I'm going to check it out as soon as my new computer sorts itself out (being loaded with stuff etc.) Hopefully this will clarify everything (in the world) :-)
DeleteJust looked at the video. Fascinating! Must learn this technique now!
DeleteHa! I suppose you'll be an expert next time we knit :-)
DeleteOops just realised that European is what you mean when you say Continental style - so I knit the British/Irish way!
ReplyDeleteThere are so many different terms for the same thing!
DeleteI knit English, and am quite tight (knitting socks on 2.25mm needles, my gauge is about 9 sts=1 inch). I did learn how to knit Continental a few years ago, but found it loosened up my gauge just enough to make me uncomfortable with the fabric I was getting (mostly, I suspect, because I was used to something else.)
ReplyDeleteThat being said, when I knit stranded colourwork, I knit two-handed, with one colour being thrown English-style and the other being picked Continental-style. I find this to be soothing, efficient, and produce a satisfyingly even gauge across all my stitches. It also totally impresses people when you whip out your knitting and then proceed to knit two-handed.
If you want to knit those fabulous Starry Night socks, I would absolutely recommend practicing Continental. I really thought I'd eventually switch over entirely, since it's faster, but I find myself so comfortable with my English throwing that I'm not bothered by a bit of lost speed.
A: I love this comment. I realize, in a gauge swatch, I will get 8.5 inches to an inch. In reality, over the course of a project, it will go to 7.5 stitches per inch. Which is a crazy variable. I totally want to impress people, as you can imagine, so I have to figure out this Continental thing. Maybe I just have to hang out with more knitters for a while :-)
DeleteOr may be you can go with us ))) renegades ))
DeleteSeriously. For me it seems like we make a stitch with smallest movement of needles and fingers. The only downside in our way is that knitter should be quite dexterous and comfortable with using both hands, but you said that this is not a problem for you.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I've got it queued. Just got new computer so I've been in set up mode... Thanks!
DeleteI've been knitting British style since I was about seven. I'm a very fast knitter, with relatively tight tension. But this last year, I decided I had to learn two-handed knitting for colourwork, and I'm now reasonably comfortable with Continental (I think both my British and my continental style are idiosyncratic, the first learned through mom and grandma, their versions of wrapping yarn for tension; the second a modification of methods I gleaned through online videos). I really resist having to learn a new "hold" but it's actually good to know how I have an alternative in case of injury and as a way of warding our potential injury.
ReplyDeleteI remember your learning journey, which seems (from afar) like it was much less traumatic than mine has been :-) I'm going to have to get a bit more flexible in all ways, I can see.
DeleteReading above, I would echo Chris. My British is fast because I throw with my index finger. The rest of my hand scarcely moves at all, and the even tension is ensured by a wrap around my little finger and under the two middle ones before hanging out on the index
ReplyDeleteYes that sounds like the way I hold my yarn. Although like you mentioned - it's good to have an alternative :)
DeleteOK, I've discovered that my index fingers are the weakest of them all. Frances: Maybe your piano playing has something to do with your knitting dexterity? At least I'm learning, though I expect the hard work will be in the fixing :-)
DeleteI can't imagine that my piano playing wouldn't have made a difference. As with the knitting, I started very young and can't begin to count the hours I put in (I'm also a pretty damn fast touch typist -- a lovely trio of another century's skills!!! ;-)
DeleteWell, I am the best touch typist too! And I just learned in adulthood :-) I think it's awesome that you have these skills - how well-rounded you are. I think it's sad that young people are half robot, but they don't know how to do the lovely arts. (And the necessary fast typing.)
Deletexo . . . and thanks for curating this wonderful thread. What a revelation!
DeletePortuguese-style! Way easier than either Continental or British! Tiny little thumb movement for both knit and purl so once you've got the tension down, you're away.
ReplyDeleteEgad! Not another option :-) Gotta go find that now too...
DeleteKeep knitting loosely. It's a lot easier on the wrists and elbows!
ReplyDeleteI knit Continental, unless I'm doing stranded colorwork in which case it's one yarn in the left hand and one yarn in the right. On average, Continental seems to be faster than English, but you can't make a rule about it. The world record fastest knitter, last I checked, knits English.
OK, that's good to know! I'll take it as a plus :-) I spent all night learning new methods. Every time I couldn't bear sucking at one of them, I'd switch to another (which I'd also suck at). Ahhh, fun times.
DeleteTo be honest I have never thought twice about how I knit and I only realised fairly recently there was more than one way! I didn't realise continental was faster. Being British I guess I knit British style. I like the sound of being able to knit without taking my hand off the needles tho. I am a tight knitter and normally got up a size to get the right tension (I have got 2.5mm needles for the sock kal). Not sure I will try Continental if it may ppotentially make me get tighter!
ReplyDeleteDo you hold the yarn in your left or right hand? If you hold it in your right hand, chances are you are a British style knitter.
DeleteI hold it in my right hand. Makes sense that I would be a British style knitter as I was taught by my Scottish gran! I may have to check out eastern European style!
DeleteI'm sure you already know that I'm a Loose Woman. When I knit, I mean ;-)
ReplyDeleteSo much so that when I do a swatch for a new project, I always start out with a needle 2 sizes down from what the pattern recommends, and it usually ends up being the one I use.
I'm a Continental Knitter from way back - my mom taught me to knit British style when I was about 8, but when I was 13 or so, she strongly encouraged me to switch to Continental, saying it's faster. And Mom is always right . . .
I love watching people knit, because even within the broader definitions of Continental or British styles, everyone does things a little bit differently. And that's not even getting into all the other knitting styles that are out there: Turkish, eastern European, etc. It's fascinating!
But in the end, I think that the way to increase speed is to choose the method that feels most comfortable for you and then practice, practice, practice. I showed my friend Alicia how to knit Continental probably about a year ago, and we still had a session the other day for me to analyze her knitting because she was having tensioning problems with her purling, although she's gotten the knit stitch down.
Watching Sara was SO edifying. I didn't have a full sense of what knitting "loose" or "tight" meant until I saw them in context. I think I'm just going to start by going down 2 needle sizes from the get-go rather than swatching at the recommended size and modifying the stitch numbers etc.
DeleteI too love to watch people knit. It's like watching personality in action. And I may end up sticking with my inefficient method because it's how my mind works best. (I'm pretty fast with that method once I hit my stride.) But I do want to learn other methods to broaden my options. It's cool to know all the things!
Back to read more of the comments! This is such an interesting thread - I didn't realize there were quite so many knitting styles or that my own one is not strictly the norm for continental knitting.
ReplyDeleteThinking about your gauge swatch, have you read this post? http://www.amyherzogdesigns.com/2013/11/19/why-swatches-sometimes-lie/
I've begun to experiment with knitting off the tip of the needle deliberately, and it definitely speeds up my knitting.
Aren't these comments fascinating? I did read that post and I linked to it in one of my recent posts. As I hold my stitches an inch on needles (I'm such a loose knitter they fall off if i I don't), this could be something I need to work on. I love having the opportunity to look online and learn zillions of different methods whenever I feel like it. If only they all came easily!
DeleteLOL. I probably read it when you linked to it and now referred you back to it. D'oh!
DeleteHa! Well thank you for noticing it in the first place :-)
DeleteI'm still amazed at the tension differences in those sock cuffs! I keep coming back to check out the comments... such a great thread! And now I have new knitting techniques to learn! Anyway, was great meeting you and I look forward to future Saturday morning discussions on tension and knitting styles at Ewe Knit!
ReplyDeleteI know! It's crazy. And I love all of these new possible techniques too. If only one of them came naturally :-) Let's compare new methods when next we meet.
DeleteK -- I don't know how I missed this post . . . super cute pix! I am a loose knitter as a thrower -- ridiculously loose! But, now that I am trying continental (trying . . . ) -- I am super tight. Shocking. I hear your gauge changes as you move from thrower to continental. I'll keep you informed. But in reality I love my loose stitches. I'm a bit perturbed on my continental stitches I am so tight:)
ReplyDeleteThanks Pam. I'm glad to know I'm not the only "loose thrower" out there :-) And I've had the exact same experience with continental. I think that it's all about figuring out how to tension the yarn. Once you find that, the rest is easy. Not that I've found it!
DeleteBTW, these comments are amazing. ..
ReplyDeleteAren't they? Thanks!
DeleteI grew up working in my mom's yarn shop, and was taught British-style throwing. I switched to continental picking when I started having RSI problems.. Mostly, I wanted the extra speed — and also appreciate how much faster it is to do ribbing and other K/P combo stitches. I used to HATE doing ribbing, now don't mind it.
ReplyDeleteWhen I decided to make the switch I chose an all-knit piece in the round. After completing that, adding purl stitches was no big deal. I had to figure out a method so my stitches weren't twisted, but it all worked itself out.
I've also seen the "Eastern European" method described as "combination knitting." Check out resources from Grumperina and Annie Modesitt on the topic. I'm not sure if adding links will flag my comment, but Googling the above names + "combination knitting" will bring up resources from each of their sites. I remember an old blog entry where Kathy of Grumperina did an analysis of how long each of the three styles took, with combination style the clear winner. The only thing that stops me from going that way fully is an entire lifetime of experience with increase/decrease stitches — with combination knitting, you need to do them differently so they're slanted the right way. She's got a handy conversion table chart on her site.
I now switch up knitting styles when my hands start to hurt, but my base style is now continental.
Another note: for people who claim they don't "get" knitting, but crochet just fine, I've had a lot of success teaching them continental style. It works out a lot better since they're already used to holding yarn in their left hand.
Yet another note, since I can't seem to stop talking about knitting - Google Stephanie Pearl-McPhee's knitting style. Lever style? Irish Cottage knitting? Whatever it's called, she's wicked fast throwing with her right hand. For bigger pieces she holds a long straight needle under one armpit.
Isn't all the variation fascinating?
Thanks for this great comment Sara! I'm going to look up combination knitting info provided... Of course, it never occurred to me that the increases and decreases will be a whole production. But I do find this combo method more intuitive than any of the other styles.
DeleteI've been trying the lever knitting in the round. Lord, what a production! But, though I move my entire hand as I throw (and remove my thumb from the needle) I have a very systematic movement that is quite efficient. But keeping my thumb on the needle is almost impossible.
Goes to show, you really need to let your brain come to terms with new movement.
I don't know which style I knit in, it's something I have never researched. I have the yarn hooked around right index finger, it's a bit faster than your method. As for tension, I describe myself as "average", in so far as my tension is tighter than my mum's but looser than my aunt's. As my tension is tighter than your's should I go up to 3.25mm circulars? (I only ask because they're the smallest circular needles I own and it would save me buying the 2.25mm!)
ReplyDeleteF: I do believe that 3.25 will be too large (that's 4 sizes larger than I recommend). Even if you knit quite tight, I'd go with 2.75 at the largest. Of course, I urge you to swatch with your 3.25s to confirm this, but I sense you might have to get a new size. Mind you, do swatch on what you have first - it will give you the info on what size to buy.
DeleteGood advice, and I even went out to Joann's and got 2.75mm. But both sizes are too short. D'oh! I think ebay is the key, the local stores never seem to have the sizes I'm looking for.
DeleteFinally have time sit down and read. As you know, I knit British (and tight) and as I mentioned before, I have never been concerned with efficiency. Knitting is a meditative activity for me and I'm happy to get lost in its repetitive nature without thinking too much about how fast I'm going. Does that make me mentally lazy? Complacent? Boring? I'm not sure. One thing is for certain: given that I am a tight knitter, I will KAL for the socks in January but I think I may have to follow my own pattern - I want these guys to fit me!
ReplyDeleteI love your attitude which is one I will try to adopt. I am far too concerned about speed in general. My yoga practice (such as it is at the moment) is forcing me to consider this all the time.
DeleteBTW, I think, if you went down a needle size, the pattern would be fine (also, you've knit socks before, so you could just work from your general needle size and stitch numbers). But of course, feel free to use whatever pattern appeals to you. We will have fun!
P.S. Here's vanity: you and Sara look super cute in that photo. I, on the other hand, am not showing my best side!
ReplyDeleteYou know - Sara took a great photo of you and me. I intend to upload it here so that everyone can see how gorgeous you are from a totally different angle. Problem is, my new computer is preventing me from downloading things from Yahoo for some reason. But I promise, will do so soon. BTW, vanity is completely reasonable! I support it entirely :-)
DeleteOh, I'm so woefully behind on reading so this is a late comment but as we discussed this briefly on twitter I thought I'd share my method too! I do english style but I'd call my method "flicking" - this video is probably the closest to what I do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y547Q5Hjcuo
ReplyDeleteI think the important point is not only that I flick with my right finger but that I use the rest of my fingers to pivot the right needle and "grab" the yarn similar to continental style. I once took a video of myself knitting so that I could see what it looked like from the front and I learned so much about what I was actually doing by doing that!
K: Check out my latest post where I link to the very same flicking video. Great minds think alike, apparently. And I'm slowly getting faster. It's a FAR more efficient method than my throwing.
DeleteI learned so much about my knitting by videoing it (my throwing version). It's a great idea if you want to improve, to see exactly what it is that you're doing in the first place.